Post by Zyraen on Mar 14, 2013 21:04:30 GMT 8
Recently the damage has been going up, but so too has the gap between the optimised and the unoptimised. With enemy HP increasing, and comments about long time to whittle down HP, it might be worth to look into Optimisation options.
As we enter into Paragon (for the Sat game) and also for Epic (for Wed game), perhaps it's worth considering how to optimise for damage. Those familiar with the game would probably not need this, but this might help others in considering how to put things together.
1) Pri Stat : this is the Stat you use for damage behind your Dice roll. Generally, it is the Stat you use for Damage too. Note that for Twin Strike, this is 0. Enhancement bonus is added to it. Just including this for completeness.
2) Striker Damage : this is usually bonus dice or stats from your Class.
Dice refer to damage dice typically associated with classes like Rogue, Warlock, Ranger, Assassin, and also Barbarian with bonuses within their power, etc. These are typically once per Turn.
The highest go to Rogue with 2d6/3d6/5d6, and that ties with Mindbite Scorn Warlock 2d6/3d6/4d6 (which costs them a feat), and at epic the Rogue still gets an extra +1d6 over the Mindbite Scorn Warlock. 4E Rangers get 1 less dice at 1d6/2d6/3d6, and only apply it once per Round instead of once per Turn, so that is a bit behind. But in return they get Twin Strike (see below).
Brutal Scoundrel Rogue aside, Thieves are among the highest, with their Finesse adding on to their 3d6 Sneak Attack dice. They gain Sneak Attack dice, and their Finesse improves too.
There are usually Feats to improve these dice-sizes.
Stats refer to Stat bonuses associated with Classes like Sorcerer, Hexblade, Slayer, Vampire, Blackguard, Monk, etc. A Brutal Scoundrel Rogue has a uniquely devastating edge of having both Stat and Dice.
These Stat damages are typically once per Turn, but a few do not specify and can be applied across multiple attacks. Sorcerers, Hexblades, Slayers have no restriction on multiple attacks in the same turn, and if multiple MBAs can be procced, Vampires and Blackguards also get it. Slayers can easily stack the extra damage with Twin Strike easily.
In terms of sheer numbers, Slayers are also having the highest "bonus" to Stat damage, way exceeding the +2 at Paragon and +4 at Epic that other Classes get.
Note that a Genasi Wizard has the ability to "gain" a Striker Stat bonus by getting the feat Elemental Empowerment which adds Str to damage. Seekers at paragon can also gain the Primal Eye feat (see below) that adds to Ranged Basic Attacks.
3) Paragon Path Bonus : some Paragon Paths provide bonuses to damage.
The most well-known and accessible of these is Lyrandar Wind-rider. Accessible with a simple Mark of Storms feat, it uniquely adds +1 Attack, and also +Con bonus to damage
For a list of some others, many of which are situational, and quite a few only occur at level 16, you can refer to squarefireballs.blogspot.sg/2010/06/guide-to-paragon-paths-with-ability.html
The list is a bit dated, so some - like monk's Zephyr Blade paragon path - are missing.
For those willing to wait until Level 16, Morninglord gives an almost flat boost of Vulnerable 10 to radiant damage.
4) Frostcheese
Frostcheese refers to the feats Lasting Frost and Wintertouched. If you are not familiar, feel free to look them up. Note that Wintertouched is arguably not required for purely damage optimisation, especially if you have a more reliable way of gaining Combat Advantage.
Apart from Frost Weapon, Arcane Admixture feat is the most common way of adding Frostcheese to arcane powers. With some games (like Saturday) having no Frozen Whetstones, this is probably the way to go for implement users. For those using Frostcheese, Gloves of Ice is a common item that goes with it, adding +2 or ignore Resist 5 Cold.
5) Radiantcheese
Basically, you find a way to inflict Vulnerability to Radiant on the Enemies. This is most often used for Morninglords, also with feat Power of the Sun and the relevant powers for divine classes.
Then you take Pelor's Sun Blessing (alternative reward) and increase it by your WIS or CON. Note that Pelor's Sun Blessing benefits you even if you are NOT dealing Radiant damage.
There is also a feat that lets you deal extra damage from Radiant Vulnerability even if you don't deal Radiant damage. The feat is called Pervasive Light, and requires a divine power source to obtain in Paragon.
6) Feat Bonus
This is simple enough : take a feat and get a flat bonus to your attacks. Most commonly Weapon / Implement Focus, granting a +1/2/3 feat bonus per Tier.
For those using Radiantcheese or Frostcheese, and NOT a Morninglord, note that Silvery Glow (requires worship of Sehanine) adds +2 / 3 / 4 feat bonus instead. There are similar other feats as well.
7) Item Bonus
Generally speaking, if your Item bonus is not at least equal to the enhancement of your weapon, you're not "there" yet. Those who use Staff of Ruin and Radiant Weapon (with Radiant attacks) will get this in full. Subtle Weapon has this covered as well, but with Combat Advantage.
For those using MBAs and RBAs, there's Bracers of the Perfect Shot and Bracers of Mighty Striking.
But there are limitations at times, especially if you're using Twin Strike. Bracers of Archery and Iron Armbands of power are somewhat higher level than those for MBAs and RBAs.
8) Dragonshards
For those unfamiliar, Dragonshards can be found in Eberron Player Guide, and they generally come in 4 main (relevant) types : Lightning, Radiant, Frost, Untyped.
Each Dragonshard grants an extra +1/3/5 damage per tier. They can only be used to "augment" weapons, not implements. Note that most implements wands, rods, holy symbols, etc do not count as Weapons, hence cannot apply these bonuses for implement attacks. Some of the more common implements - Staff, Dagger - count as weapons hence can be combined.
Dragonshards of Lightning (Eberron Shard of Lightning), Radiant (Siberys Shard of Radiance), Frost (Siberys Shard of Merciless Cold) only apply when you deal damage of that type. Some may argue that they only apply for weapon attacks, but it appears that as long as the attack "uses" the weapon, that is appropriate, referencing Siberys Shard of the Mage. For the campaigns as long as your attack uses an augmented weapon (even as an implement), I would deem it applies.
Untyped (Siberys Shard of the Mage) is specific only to implement powers that use the augmented weapon, so it does not apply to Weapon attacks. Even less reason not to use a Staff of Ruin...
9) Implements only
Superior Implements of the right type can offer increased damage. Example is Crystal Orb, if all your attacks target Will and deal Psychic damage, you get +1 Attack and +2/3/4 Psychic damage. Another is Incendiary Dagger or Ashen Rod, they deal +1 vs Reflex and you get +2/3/4 Fire damage.
If you aren't worried about Opportunity Attacks and like Wands, you can also go Dragontooth Wand and get +1 vs Reflex and +1/2/3 damage, no matter what type of damage you deal.
Arcane Implement users also benefit from feat Dual Implement Spellcaster, that deals extra damage based on the implement you use in your offhand. Rhythm Blade works excellently if you can use Daggers as an implement.
10) Charging Regalia
For those who charge, the following are considered "standard" charge "Regalia"
- Vanguard Weapon or Avalanche Weapon
- Horned Helm : +1d6 / 2d6 / 3d6 damage on a charge
- Badge of Berserker : you do not provoke OAs when you charge
- Marauder's Armor : bonus defenses when you charge
- (Feat) Surprising Charge : extra 1[W] damage when charging with CA.
- (Feat) Streak of Light : Whenever you charge, your target grants you CA. Pixie only.
- (Feat) Deft Blade : you get to target Reflex with a Light Blade. sadly, there is no two handed light blade.
Melee Attackers (implement or weapon) that have sufficient item bonus can also get Staff of the Serpent (heroic, paragon) or Sword of Black Ice (epic) for additional damage.
11) Ranged Basic Attack
Multiclass Seeker, then take the feat Primal Eye to gain a +STR or +DEX bonus to RBA damage.
Eagle-Eyed Goggles also works well to increase the accuracy, a +1/2/3 item bonus to RBA Attack rolls.
In paragon Deft Blade (feat) works very well with both RBA and MBA ; at epic Deft Aim (feat) makes an excellent replacement for RBAs.
If you can consistently gain concealment, say with Warlock's Shadow Walk or item Phantom Chaussures or item Armor of Dark Deeds, you can also take the feat Hidden Sniper to get more CA.
12) Theme Bonus (for games with themes)
Some themes have specific types of damage. Primordial Adept gives you +2 Fire or +2 Frost.
Feybeast Tamer makes it relatively easy to get CA against your Enemy.
Infernal Prince provides a +1 attack bonus with Fire attacks.
Vile Scholar provides a +2 attack bonus if you catch an Ally in your burst, and works well with War Wizard Expertise (feat).
13) Knocking Prone
If you can slow an enemy At Will, you can use feat World Serpent's Grasp to knock prone a slowed enemy. This usually only benefits Melee attacks.
With feat Grounding Shot, you get +2 damage against it with Ranged Attacks, or more restrictively, the feat Headsman's Chop gives you +5 damage against it with Melee attacks if you are using an Axe or Heavy Blade.
Note that those who can slide 2 in melee can usually knock the target prone At Will, using feat Polearm Momentum (requires Str 15 Wis 15) or feat Flail Expertise.
Dragonborn fighters can stack STR bonus when pushing or knocking prone with paragon feat Draconic Arrogance.
14) Other Bonuses
- Headband of Intellect provides a +1 bonus to psychic keyword attacks. thanks to Shaun for this.
- Resplendent Gloves provides a +2 bonus to psychic damage
- Fire damage dealers can use Gift of Flame (alternative reward) to mitigate Fire Resistance, among many other things
- (feat) paragon Shocking Flame for Genasi. You get +2 lightning or fire damage. thanks to AlexKong for this.
- (feat) tiefling Hellfire Blood provides a +1 bonus to attack and damage rolls with fire or fear powers.
- (feat) paragon Psychic Lock causes the target that is hit by a Psychic power to get a -2 penalty to attack
- (feat) paragon Merciless Killer for Drow. You deal +5 damage against bloodied enemies that grant you CA.
- (feat) paragon Versatile Master for Half-Elf Dilettante provides access into a large range of At Will powers. Among the strongest optimisation would be Twin Strike, which with Stat-based classes like Slayer etc can easily Push up the damage. The feat Adept Dilettante also lets you change the Stat you use to attack.
- (feat) paragon Called Shot increases the damage for classes with Prime Shot feature, ie PHB1 Ranger or Warlock.
- (feat) Venom Hand Mastery helps poison damage users ignore all resistances. note it does not bypass insubstantial.
- (feat) epic Paladin's Truth bypasses all resistances of those that are marked.
As we enter into Paragon (for the Sat game) and also for Epic (for Wed game), perhaps it's worth considering how to optimise for damage. Those familiar with the game would probably not need this, but this might help others in considering how to put things together.
1) Pri Stat : this is the Stat you use for damage behind your Dice roll. Generally, it is the Stat you use for Damage too. Note that for Twin Strike, this is 0. Enhancement bonus is added to it. Just including this for completeness.
2) Striker Damage : this is usually bonus dice or stats from your Class.
Dice refer to damage dice typically associated with classes like Rogue, Warlock, Ranger, Assassin, and also Barbarian with bonuses within their power, etc. These are typically once per Turn.
The highest go to Rogue with 2d6/3d6/5d6, and that ties with Mindbite Scorn Warlock 2d6/3d6/4d6 (which costs them a feat), and at epic the Rogue still gets an extra +1d6 over the Mindbite Scorn Warlock. 4E Rangers get 1 less dice at 1d6/2d6/3d6, and only apply it once per Round instead of once per Turn, so that is a bit behind. But in return they get Twin Strike (see below).
Brutal Scoundrel Rogue aside, Thieves are among the highest, with their Finesse adding on to their 3d6 Sneak Attack dice. They gain Sneak Attack dice, and their Finesse improves too.
There are usually Feats to improve these dice-sizes.
Stats refer to Stat bonuses associated with Classes like Sorcerer, Hexblade, Slayer, Vampire, Blackguard, Monk, etc. A Brutal Scoundrel Rogue has a uniquely devastating edge of having both Stat and Dice.
These Stat damages are typically once per Turn, but a few do not specify and can be applied across multiple attacks. Sorcerers, Hexblades, Slayers have no restriction on multiple attacks in the same turn, and if multiple MBAs can be procced, Vampires and Blackguards also get it. Slayers can easily stack the extra damage with Twin Strike easily.
In terms of sheer numbers, Slayers are also having the highest "bonus" to Stat damage, way exceeding the +2 at Paragon and +4 at Epic that other Classes get.
Note that a Genasi Wizard has the ability to "gain" a Striker Stat bonus by getting the feat Elemental Empowerment which adds Str to damage. Seekers at paragon can also gain the Primal Eye feat (see below) that adds to Ranged Basic Attacks.
3) Paragon Path Bonus : some Paragon Paths provide bonuses to damage.
The most well-known and accessible of these is Lyrandar Wind-rider. Accessible with a simple Mark of Storms feat, it uniquely adds +1 Attack, and also +Con bonus to damage
For a list of some others, many of which are situational, and quite a few only occur at level 16, you can refer to squarefireballs.blogspot.sg/2010/06/guide-to-paragon-paths-with-ability.html
The list is a bit dated, so some - like monk's Zephyr Blade paragon path - are missing.
For those willing to wait until Level 16, Morninglord gives an almost flat boost of Vulnerable 10 to radiant damage.
4) Frostcheese
Frostcheese refers to the feats Lasting Frost and Wintertouched. If you are not familiar, feel free to look them up. Note that Wintertouched is arguably not required for purely damage optimisation, especially if you have a more reliable way of gaining Combat Advantage.
Apart from Frost Weapon, Arcane Admixture feat is the most common way of adding Frostcheese to arcane powers. With some games (like Saturday) having no Frozen Whetstones, this is probably the way to go for implement users. For those using Frostcheese, Gloves of Ice is a common item that goes with it, adding +2 or ignore Resist 5 Cold.
5) Radiantcheese
Basically, you find a way to inflict Vulnerability to Radiant on the Enemies. This is most often used for Morninglords, also with feat Power of the Sun and the relevant powers for divine classes.
Then you take Pelor's Sun Blessing (alternative reward) and increase it by your WIS or CON. Note that Pelor's Sun Blessing benefits you even if you are NOT dealing Radiant damage.
There is also a feat that lets you deal extra damage from Radiant Vulnerability even if you don't deal Radiant damage. The feat is called Pervasive Light, and requires a divine power source to obtain in Paragon.
6) Feat Bonus
This is simple enough : take a feat and get a flat bonus to your attacks. Most commonly Weapon / Implement Focus, granting a +1/2/3 feat bonus per Tier.
For those using Radiantcheese or Frostcheese, and NOT a Morninglord, note that Silvery Glow (requires worship of Sehanine) adds +2 / 3 / 4 feat bonus instead. There are similar other feats as well.
7) Item Bonus
Generally speaking, if your Item bonus is not at least equal to the enhancement of your weapon, you're not "there" yet. Those who use Staff of Ruin and Radiant Weapon (with Radiant attacks) will get this in full. Subtle Weapon has this covered as well, but with Combat Advantage.
For those using MBAs and RBAs, there's Bracers of the Perfect Shot and Bracers of Mighty Striking.
But there are limitations at times, especially if you're using Twin Strike. Bracers of Archery and Iron Armbands of power are somewhat higher level than those for MBAs and RBAs.
8) Dragonshards
For those unfamiliar, Dragonshards can be found in Eberron Player Guide, and they generally come in 4 main (relevant) types : Lightning, Radiant, Frost, Untyped.
Each Dragonshard grants an extra +1/3/5 damage per tier. They can only be used to "augment" weapons, not implements. Note that most implements wands, rods, holy symbols, etc do not count as Weapons, hence cannot apply these bonuses for implement attacks. Some of the more common implements - Staff, Dagger - count as weapons hence can be combined.
Dragonshards of Lightning (Eberron Shard of Lightning), Radiant (Siberys Shard of Radiance), Frost (Siberys Shard of Merciless Cold) only apply when you deal damage of that type. Some may argue that they only apply for weapon attacks, but it appears that as long as the attack "uses" the weapon, that is appropriate, referencing Siberys Shard of the Mage. For the campaigns as long as your attack uses an augmented weapon (even as an implement), I would deem it applies.
Untyped (Siberys Shard of the Mage) is specific only to implement powers that use the augmented weapon, so it does not apply to Weapon attacks. Even less reason not to use a Staff of Ruin...
9) Implements only
Superior Implements of the right type can offer increased damage. Example is Crystal Orb, if all your attacks target Will and deal Psychic damage, you get +1 Attack and +2/3/4 Psychic damage. Another is Incendiary Dagger or Ashen Rod, they deal +1 vs Reflex and you get +2/3/4 Fire damage.
If you aren't worried about Opportunity Attacks and like Wands, you can also go Dragontooth Wand and get +1 vs Reflex and +1/2/3 damage, no matter what type of damage you deal.
Arcane Implement users also benefit from feat Dual Implement Spellcaster, that deals extra damage based on the implement you use in your offhand. Rhythm Blade works excellently if you can use Daggers as an implement.
10) Charging Regalia
For those who charge, the following are considered "standard" charge "Regalia"
- Vanguard Weapon or Avalanche Weapon
- Horned Helm : +1d6 / 2d6 / 3d6 damage on a charge
- Badge of Berserker : you do not provoke OAs when you charge
- Marauder's Armor : bonus defenses when you charge
- (Feat) Surprising Charge : extra 1[W] damage when charging with CA.
- (Feat) Streak of Light : Whenever you charge, your target grants you CA. Pixie only.
- (Feat) Deft Blade : you get to target Reflex with a Light Blade. sadly, there is no two handed light blade.
Melee Attackers (implement or weapon) that have sufficient item bonus can also get Staff of the Serpent (heroic, paragon) or Sword of Black Ice (epic) for additional damage.
11) Ranged Basic Attack
Multiclass Seeker, then take the feat Primal Eye to gain a +STR or +DEX bonus to RBA damage.
Eagle-Eyed Goggles also works well to increase the accuracy, a +1/2/3 item bonus to RBA Attack rolls.
In paragon Deft Blade (feat) works very well with both RBA and MBA ; at epic Deft Aim (feat) makes an excellent replacement for RBAs.
If you can consistently gain concealment, say with Warlock's Shadow Walk or item Phantom Chaussures or item Armor of Dark Deeds, you can also take the feat Hidden Sniper to get more CA.
12) Theme Bonus (for games with themes)
Some themes have specific types of damage. Primordial Adept gives you +2 Fire or +2 Frost.
Feybeast Tamer makes it relatively easy to get CA against your Enemy.
Infernal Prince provides a +1 attack bonus with Fire attacks.
Vile Scholar provides a +2 attack bonus if you catch an Ally in your burst, and works well with War Wizard Expertise (feat).
13) Knocking Prone
If you can slow an enemy At Will, you can use feat World Serpent's Grasp to knock prone a slowed enemy. This usually only benefits Melee attacks.
With feat Grounding Shot, you get +2 damage against it with Ranged Attacks, or more restrictively, the feat Headsman's Chop gives you +5 damage against it with Melee attacks if you are using an Axe or Heavy Blade.
Note that those who can slide 2 in melee can usually knock the target prone At Will, using feat Polearm Momentum (requires Str 15 Wis 15) or feat Flail Expertise.
Dragonborn fighters can stack STR bonus when pushing or knocking prone with paragon feat Draconic Arrogance.
14) Other Bonuses
- Headband of Intellect provides a +1 bonus to psychic keyword attacks. thanks to Shaun for this.
- Resplendent Gloves provides a +2 bonus to psychic damage
- Fire damage dealers can use Gift of Flame (alternative reward) to mitigate Fire Resistance, among many other things
- (feat) paragon Shocking Flame for Genasi. You get +2 lightning or fire damage. thanks to AlexKong for this.
- (feat) tiefling Hellfire Blood provides a +1 bonus to attack and damage rolls with fire or fear powers.
- (feat) paragon Psychic Lock causes the target that is hit by a Psychic power to get a -2 penalty to attack
- (feat) paragon Merciless Killer for Drow. You deal +5 damage against bloodied enemies that grant you CA.
- (feat) paragon Versatile Master for Half-Elf Dilettante provides access into a large range of At Will powers. Among the strongest optimisation would be Twin Strike, which with Stat-based classes like Slayer etc can easily Push up the damage. The feat Adept Dilettante also lets you change the Stat you use to attack.
- (feat) paragon Called Shot increases the damage for classes with Prime Shot feature, ie PHB1 Ranger or Warlock.
- (feat) Venom Hand Mastery helps poison damage users ignore all resistances. note it does not bypass insubstantial.
- (feat) epic Paladin's Truth bypasses all resistances of those that are marked.