Post by Zyraen on Dec 31, 2014 13:38:22 GMT 8
Warning: involved topic. if you dont think it involves you, feel free to skip.
DAMAGE TYPES
For clarification, here is my view/ruling on multiple damage types, the following would apply. The official rules are pretty ambiguous/silent.
ALL of the following is arguably a House Rule. Those who disagree can PM me in Whatsapp.
POWER DAMAGE TYPE
1) Keyword of the power determines damage type. if unspecified, it is untyped.
eg Eldritch Blast is untyped.
2) Arcane Admixtures etc that add keywords in the power damage type apply.
3) Weapon / Implement Property (or Feats) that replaces the damage type applies. Where applicable, this replaces those earlier.
Note that certain Items (eg Crusader Weapon) allow HALF the damage dealt to become a particular type. in such situation, the Remaining Half remains the usual, effectively it adds a Damage Keyword. However, either type of damage can still be Resisted separately.
To save time, this can be fixed as a particular number by the DM.
EXAMPLE
1) Hellish Rebuke is Fire
2) Player admixtures Lightning. the power is now Fire and Lightning
3) Player uses a Frost Weapon to turn it into Cold damage. The entire power now deals ONLY Cold damage, replacing Fire and Lightning from earlier. If the player has Hellfire Blood that grants +1 attack and damage with Fire powers, it no longer applies because the power is now Cold, not Fire.
If the Player instead uses a Crusader Weapon, half the damage is Radiant. The remaining half is still Fire, Lightning damage (as per 1 and 2).
Note that this damage type remains the same if procced later on, based on the damage type of the latest power that hit the opponent.
eg. Player uses Frost Weapon to fire a cold Hellish Rebuke. he then takes some damage, and the additional damage dealt by Hellish Rebuke remains cold, since that was the damage type that had hit the target.
NOTE: A free action is a separate action. Hence an Elementalist using a Frost Weapon who fires two escalated Elemental Bolts (fire), can have them both fire, or both cold, but not one fire and one cold. If a free action is mentioned as part of a power, eg Elemental Escalation, it is taken based on its sequence in the power.
ADDITIONAL DAMAGE TYPES
4) After the Power's Damage Type is determined, all the additional damage types are taken in. These may come from Class Features (eg Curse), Powers (eg Escalation).
If it is simply "extra damage" without stating a type (eg Curse, Quarry), or stated to be the same (eg Escalation's extra 1d10), it is treated as of the same type AND source as the original power, as at the end of Step 3.
There are however some extra damage types that are specific types of damage, be it from Feats (eg Mindbite Scorn), Items (eg Staff of the Serpent).
These different damage types are treated on their own, and can be resisted separately. If it is completely resisted, the power loses that extra keyword and effects from the relevant feats do not come into play.
These different damage type keywords are therefore ADDED to the power, but ONLY IF the damage is actually dealt.
EXAMPLE
4) Player uses Crusader Weapon above with his admixtured Hellish Rebuke to deal Fire/Lightning (half) Radiant (half) damage.
He also applies 2d8 Curse damage, which he uses Gloves of Eldritch Admixture to change to Cold.
His Mindbite Scorn triggers an extra dice 1d8 of Psychic Curse Damage.
If the target has Resist Cold 10, it can Resist up to 10 points of his Curse damage. However, if he rolls 3 on his Curse damage, it only resists that 3 damage.
Likewise, if the target has Resist Psychic 10, it is only applied against the 1d8 Mindbite Scorn damage. However, if the Player has Psychic Lock feat, which is contingent on dealing Psychic damage, there is no benefit as no Psychic damage was dealt to the target.
RESISTANCES
Note following from Glossary, on subject of Resistance
Lets say the above target is struck by Hellish Rebuke that is Fire (half), Radiant (half), with 2d8 Cold Curse, and 1d8 Psychic.
However the target has Resist Fire 10, Resist Radiant 5, Resist Cold 10, Resist Psychic 5.
Since the additional damage types are all separate, they are resisted separately.
However, the Radiant & Fire is a single power, ie a single Source. Since it is not strictly combined (as per Arcane Admixture), the higher Resistance of Resist Fire 10 would apply, and Resist Radiant 5 is ignored.
Hence in general, if an item changes "Half" your damage to a certain type, unlike Admixture, it is not a "Combined Damaged Type", but two separate. You take the HIGHER Resistance that applies, up to half the damage.
NOTE: the Caveat in Step 4 only distinguishes the extra damage IF it is Different from the power.
So in above example, to reduce the damage lost from Resistance, the Player could instead leave his Curse untyped, and it is no longer separately resisted / negated. However, because he cannot do likewise for his Mindbite Scorn, it is resisted separately UNLESS the power is itself Psychic.
Note that Psychic admixtured with Lightning is different from Psychic.
Note that Resist All 10 is treated as Resist Fire 10, Resist Radiant 10, Resist Untyped 10, Resist Psychic 10, etc.. for all damage types.
VULNERABILITY TO SEPARATE TYPES
By the same virtue as above, just as separate Damage Types proc separate Resistances, they also proc separate Vulnerabilities.
However, a power with Combined Damage Types only procs vulnerability once, that of the highest vulnerability.
eg. Player hits a target with Hellish Rebuke (Fire) and has Mindbite Scorn (Psychic).
if the target has Vulnerable Fire 5, and Vulnerable Psychic 5, it takes 10 extra damage as the Psychic is a separate damage.
eg. Player hits a target with Hellish Rebuke (Fire) admixture Lightning.
if the target has Vulnerable 5 Lightning and Vulnerable 10 Fire, it only takes 10 extra damage from the higher Vulnerability, as both damage types are from the same source.
DAMAGE TYPES
For clarification, here is my view/ruling on multiple damage types, the following would apply. The official rules are pretty ambiguous/silent.
ALL of the following is arguably a House Rule. Those who disagree can PM me in Whatsapp.
POWER DAMAGE TYPE
1) Keyword of the power determines damage type. if unspecified, it is untyped.
eg Eldritch Blast is untyped.
2) Arcane Admixtures etc that add keywords in the power damage type apply.
3) Weapon / Implement Property (or Feats) that replaces the damage type applies. Where applicable, this replaces those earlier.
Note that certain Items (eg Crusader Weapon) allow HALF the damage dealt to become a particular type. in such situation, the Remaining Half remains the usual, effectively it adds a Damage Keyword. However, either type of damage can still be Resisted separately.
To save time, this can be fixed as a particular number by the DM.
EXAMPLE
1) Hellish Rebuke is Fire
2) Player admixtures Lightning. the power is now Fire and Lightning
3) Player uses a Frost Weapon to turn it into Cold damage. The entire power now deals ONLY Cold damage, replacing Fire and Lightning from earlier. If the player has Hellfire Blood that grants +1 attack and damage with Fire powers, it no longer applies because the power is now Cold, not Fire.
If the Player instead uses a Crusader Weapon, half the damage is Radiant. The remaining half is still Fire, Lightning damage (as per 1 and 2).
Note that this damage type remains the same if procced later on, based on the damage type of the latest power that hit the opponent.
eg. Player uses Frost Weapon to fire a cold Hellish Rebuke. he then takes some damage, and the additional damage dealt by Hellish Rebuke remains cold, since that was the damage type that had hit the target.
NOTE: A free action is a separate action. Hence an Elementalist using a Frost Weapon who fires two escalated Elemental Bolts (fire), can have them both fire, or both cold, but not one fire and one cold. If a free action is mentioned as part of a power, eg Elemental Escalation, it is taken based on its sequence in the power.
ADDITIONAL DAMAGE TYPES
4) After the Power's Damage Type is determined, all the additional damage types are taken in. These may come from Class Features (eg Curse), Powers (eg Escalation).
If it is simply "extra damage" without stating a type (eg Curse, Quarry), or stated to be the same (eg Escalation's extra 1d10), it is treated as of the same type AND source as the original power, as at the end of Step 3.
There are however some extra damage types that are specific types of damage, be it from Feats (eg Mindbite Scorn), Items (eg Staff of the Serpent).
These different damage types are treated on their own, and can be resisted separately. If it is completely resisted, the power loses that extra keyword and effects from the relevant feats do not come into play.
These different damage type keywords are therefore ADDED to the power, but ONLY IF the damage is actually dealt.
EXAMPLE
4) Player uses Crusader Weapon above with his admixtured Hellish Rebuke to deal Fire/Lightning (half) Radiant (half) damage.
He also applies 2d8 Curse damage, which he uses Gloves of Eldritch Admixture to change to Cold.
His Mindbite Scorn triggers an extra dice 1d8 of Psychic Curse Damage.
If the target has Resist Cold 10, it can Resist up to 10 points of his Curse damage. However, if he rolls 3 on his Curse damage, it only resists that 3 damage.
Likewise, if the target has Resist Psychic 10, it is only applied against the 1d8 Mindbite Scorn damage. However, if the Player has Psychic Lock feat, which is contingent on dealing Psychic damage, there is no benefit as no Psychic damage was dealt to the target.
RESISTANCES
Note following from Glossary, on subject of Resistance
Against Combined Damage Types A creature’s resistance is ineffective against combined damage types unless the creature has resistance to each of the damage types, and then only the weakest of the resistances applies.
Example: A creature has resist 10 lightning and resist 5 thunder, and an attack deals 15 lightning and thunder damage to it. The creature takes 10 lightning and thunder damage, because the resistance to the combined damage types is limited to the lesser of the two (in this case, 5 thunder). If the creature had only resist 10 lightning, it would take all 15 damage from the attack.
Not Cumulative Resistances against the same damage type are not cumulative. Only the highest resistance applies.
Example: If a creature has resist 5 cold and then gains resist 10 cold, it now has resist 10 cold, not resist 15 cold. Similarly, if a creature has resist 5 cold and then gains resist 2 to all damage, the creature still has resist 5 cold, not resist 7 cold.
Example: A creature has resist 10 lightning and resist 5 thunder, and an attack deals 15 lightning and thunder damage to it. The creature takes 10 lightning and thunder damage, because the resistance to the combined damage types is limited to the lesser of the two (in this case, 5 thunder). If the creature had only resist 10 lightning, it would take all 15 damage from the attack.
Not Cumulative Resistances against the same damage type are not cumulative. Only the highest resistance applies.
Example: If a creature has resist 5 cold and then gains resist 10 cold, it now has resist 10 cold, not resist 15 cold. Similarly, if a creature has resist 5 cold and then gains resist 2 to all damage, the creature still has resist 5 cold, not resist 7 cold.
Lets say the above target is struck by Hellish Rebuke that is Fire (half), Radiant (half), with 2d8 Cold Curse, and 1d8 Psychic.
However the target has Resist Fire 10, Resist Radiant 5, Resist Cold 10, Resist Psychic 5.
Since the additional damage types are all separate, they are resisted separately.
However, the Radiant & Fire is a single power, ie a single Source. Since it is not strictly combined (as per Arcane Admixture), the higher Resistance of Resist Fire 10 would apply, and Resist Radiant 5 is ignored.
Hence in general, if an item changes "Half" your damage to a certain type, unlike Admixture, it is not a "Combined Damaged Type", but two separate. You take the HIGHER Resistance that applies, up to half the damage.
NOTE: the Caveat in Step 4 only distinguishes the extra damage IF it is Different from the power.
So in above example, to reduce the damage lost from Resistance, the Player could instead leave his Curse untyped, and it is no longer separately resisted / negated. However, because he cannot do likewise for his Mindbite Scorn, it is resisted separately UNLESS the power is itself Psychic.
Note that Psychic admixtured with Lightning is different from Psychic.
Note that Resist All 10 is treated as Resist Fire 10, Resist Radiant 10, Resist Untyped 10, Resist Psychic 10, etc.. for all damage types.
VULNERABILITY TO SEPARATE TYPES
By the same virtue as above, just as separate Damage Types proc separate Resistances, they also proc separate Vulnerabilities.
However, a power with Combined Damage Types only procs vulnerability once, that of the highest vulnerability.
eg. Player hits a target with Hellish Rebuke (Fire) and has Mindbite Scorn (Psychic).
if the target has Vulnerable Fire 5, and Vulnerable Psychic 5, it takes 10 extra damage as the Psychic is a separate damage.
eg. Player hits a target with Hellish Rebuke (Fire) admixture Lightning.
if the target has Vulnerable 5 Lightning and Vulnerable 10 Fire, it only takes 10 extra damage from the higher Vulnerability, as both damage types are from the same source.